Its going to be alright

we were rubbish against citeh ….yes utter pants man. but we move on. theres been a lot of condemnation of Bilic, his tactics and the performance, and its all warranted. i do however think Bilic is still the right man for the club and i do think we still have a decent side. as Betty said, Bilic needs to get a grip when we play 'better' sides…we need to accept we are not as good on paper and because of that we need to approach the games accordingly. moving forwards i think snodgrass should replace feghouli in the side and that will improve us. in fact i think snoddy will really add some threat for us there. ayew is back shortly and kouyate i think is already back…so our options are looking better.

burkie's picture

God bless your optimism dicksy ,what i take from Wednesday night is scary, for a start you've got the obvious gap in class but pep got it just right ,now it couldn't have been luck ,the amount of cross field passes that found the man to the nearest cent and none of our lads within a country mile of the reciever,and of course his "6 second" rule that really does give the impression that they had 15 players on the pitch where as we were ambling around looking at them .
I still cant help thinkin that the pitch size and the fans being so far away has a lot to do with it ,something psychological, it just seems so masive ,i think the saints is going to be a big test they like possession football and when their in the mood they are hard to beat ,i too think when Snoddy settles himself and Carroll will be formidable but im afraid Nolans days are numbered still the best spot kicker in the prem though ,so ,i think the optimum word is cohesion, we dont seem to have any

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10 users have voted.

PMSL! Thanks Burkie

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burkie's picture

Wats PMSL Bet ,sorry for being a thickco

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5 users have voted.
moore2come's picture

I think it's 'piss m'self laughing' although could be related to menstrual cycles for all I know!

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5 users have voted.
darrenharry's picture

A phrase that fills me with dread.
Often used by failing regimes...

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6 users have voted.
Dicks is the man's picture

which 'regimes' then? and I'm pretty sure its a phrase that would be used by successful ones too. you do make up some tripe at times mate.

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darrenharry's picture

A cliche, something to hide behind. Used by successful regimes too, which makes it an even sillier statement statement. It's so "beige" it means nothing.
And don't be so disrespectful...to tripe.

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8 users have voted.
Lenuse's picture

this is unbelievable. we have capitulated 4 times at home this term and yet the same people who made out Allardyce to be the anti Christ refuse to aim much at the current manager.
I am not, nor have I ever been the type to scream for a manager to be sacked, but in view of what has gone on this term under his watch, I think that serious questions will have to be asked of Mr. Bilic.

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10 users have voted.
darrenharry's picture

Bilic has that classic "credit in the bank" stuff for finishing 7th in an emotionally charged season. Many also (somehow with insider knowledge?) believes he isn't being backed with funds.
Irrespective, I've seen too many soulless displays this season. If Payet was the problem, he no longer has that excuse that's for sure.
I think he has to shoulder much more. We're nowhere near safe.

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6 users have voted.
Dicks is the man's picture

who are these 'same people' you generalise? and I think serious questions have and are being asked.

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8 users have voted.

Spot on lenuse

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8 users have voted.
Lenuse's picture

You only have to have looked on this forum once or twice prior to last season to see who the "same people" are. As for the "serious questions", they have to be asked by the board at the end of the season.
Too often this term we have looked inept and he will have to answer for that.

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6 users have voted.
plaistow-man's picture

I agree with Dicksy I think Bilic is the man for us, players respect him so he has the dressing room though he does need to create a template which can be tweaked to adapt to counteract the varied opposition. Defence wise we need to be sharper and City were slick on the night, still feel City got the rub with goals 3 and 4 but that is the way of things. Can't change it. Apart from playing kids in the FA Cup v Forest and EFL Cup v City Allardyce was never on the end of a thumping. But we (hopefully) live and learn. Here is hoping Slav gets it right but while last season was emotionally charged with being the "Farewell Boleyn" season players and fans combined looked at every game like it was the last and the emotion from the stands filtered on the pitch and the players responded, Maybe the fans being so far from he pitch is having a negative impact but the players need to perform and we the supporters need to get behind them.

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9 users have voted.

I actually think its more the pitch rather then stadium. It worked to our benefit when we played chelsea at the OS. The pitch is to long and narrow and not only that the pitch is to slow. The ball doesn't move on it and the pitch doesn't see mto take on water. This means we can't even sit back and counter attack teams. So all we're left with is a slow team that doesnt have enough space when going forward as we dont have good intricate passer is to easy to get in behind, and cant attack with any real pace due to the pitch making it night on impossible. Pitch needs to be ripped up.

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8 users have voted.
moore 6 legend's picture

Ain't the pitch at the OS meant to be that state of the art Desso GrassMaster,what lady brady kept banging on about,i think it cost about a million squid to install mate,wembley the arse and both manc clubs have it..

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7 users have voted.

Dunno mate but just because they have the same make doesn't make it same pitch. Watch the games mate the pitch is to slow. Mark Hughes noted it aswell.

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6 users have voted.

We got economy version of the big boys pitch

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Deluded Hammer's picture

I'm with Lenuse on this

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9 users have voted.
Cathammer's picture

Saw on Facebook West Ham page they were asking fans how many points we would get from the next 8 games. I could only muster 10 points. I thought we looked very slow compared to City. You hear rumours of relaxed training sessions. Thought they were slow out of the blocks on the night. But they will be fine come the end of the season. Then we will see what GOLDen signings will transpire.

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Bondsy's picture

When our scouts and manager make their wish list it is always funding and always will be funding as the obstacle when going to the board and discussing who West Ham are going for.
Karen Brady and David Sullivan have always been very astute and hence loan signings of players other teams do not want and unfit injury prone gambles seem to come our way despite the tv money and fantastic stadium we have at next to no cost when you take away the season ticket sales.
We were promised quality players and it did not happen. Slaven Bilic can only work with the players he has got. His style of play is good but in my opinion too many of the first team squad are not good enough to play to it or make a challenge for a top finish they cant pass the ball accurately enough or fast enough either.
As for Allardyce many of you forget he only won 4 out of our last 21 games and had to go. Bilic has a lot of those players still and we have improved but only top half of the table at best.

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8 users have voted.

I'm wondering if we need a different type of player mentally for this kinda arena? Plus I wonder if the pitch is performing as well as Upton Park did? Clutching at straws there but it can be baffling at times.

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6 users have voted.
Lenuse's picture

Funding is always the issue at every club, and no matter what figures are in what column on the balance sheet, all that the TV money has done is increase the fees and the wage bills of each club. The financial implications of the new stadium will not make a difference this term and what the owners are doing, the way they're managing the finances, is to ensure that the club can move forward.
As for the stat that was quoted re. the last 21 games under Sam Allardyce, true though it may be it does not alter the fact that there were people on this forum and others who were slating the guy from the day he walked into the place, even when we were winning, so that particular stat is irrelevant to the point I'm making.
FACT of the 5 home games that we have won this term, 3 have been against the current bottom 3, 1 has been against a newly promoted side, 1 was against Bournemouth,
FACT. Bilic sanctioned the sale of an adequate Centre half aged 27 (Tomkins) and then signed a 33 year old average Centre half in Fonte.
FACT. We have in many games this term defended appallingly - Southampton at home was as bad as I have seen a West Ham team play in many, many years,
So without going too mad on this topic, I maintain that if this sort of thing had happened at ANY point during Sam Allardyce's tenure the abuse from the usual suspects on this, and other forums would be deafening.
I maintain that there are clearly problems within the football club and that Mr. Bilic will have a great deal of explaining to do come the end of the season.

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9 users have voted.
plaistow-man's picture

Agree regards the treatment of Allardyce, personally I liked him he was at least honest, Tomkins? yep should never have let him go as I thought he was quite veratile and could slot into RB, Fonte to me is better than average though and once settled I think (hope) will prove that. Yes defending is an issue and we have a former cntre back as boss and LB as coach so what is wrong? Funding yes but one thing hat annoy's me is on so many forums is the phrase "marquee signings" and I know a lot comes from the board but Reid took time to settle, we have Cresswell, Randolph and Antonio all done well and as for the French bloke hardly "marquee" never heard of him and yet last term he was outstanding, pity the end result of that though.

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7 users have voted.
Dicks is the man's picture

Lenuse - but your saying tomkins is adequate and fonte is average is an opinion…its not a fact is it? you can easily be argued against due to fonte's international career far outweighs tomkins….we can all label players abilities but that doesnt make what we say facts. not picking at the bones but you know. i thought allardyce was o.k when we had him….but he went stale. but i don't really understand what it has to do with Bilic? it seems that whenever someone defends bilic we have the 'if it were allardyce we'd be doing this or that to him…' is there really any point to that? if its purely on the basis that you reckon allardyce did as good as job as bilic or better then ok but a lot of people would see it differently and actually see the club has moved forwards since he left. at the end of the day this season isn't up so we can't judge either way, but on the basis of what has been put in the history books i reckon you have to argue that bilic's first season was a success and better than allardyce's last.

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7 users have voted.
Lenuse's picture

The point I'm making is that Bilic has had an extremely easy ride from the same people who demonised Allardyce from the day he walked in the place, particularly when you look at what's gone on this term.
You can dismiss my "opinions" on individual players as much as you like, but in the case of the two players mentioned I will back my judgement 100% on both of them, point as much as you like at Fonte's international career but I prefer to look at the evidence of my own eyes and the fact that he is in the last stage of his pro career, and £8m is way over the top for a 33 year old defender.
I agree about Tomkins versatility, it was his main strength, generally he was no more than adequate but the thing with him was that too many people went way over the top about him at times due to the fact that he was a "home grown" player.
If you think I'm getting at Bilic then I'm not. Whoever had been in charge of a season that has gone like this one would in my view, have a fair bit of explaining to do come May, but I also maintain that Bilic appears to be "Teflon man" in the eyes of many people on here and he has had an extremely easy ride and I don't understand why. Just an observation.

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6 users have voted.

The reason is because the first thing allardye did at the club was claim the west ham way etc.. was rubbish constantly publicly critisized the fans mocked our history, cupped his ear at the fans, had a huge ego, never took responsibility for awful performances, the forest fa cup game debacle, only won 3 out of his last 21 games his subs were worse then Slavs, his idea for a game changing sub was to bring on demel for O'Brien or vice versa every game never changed from 451 and I lost count of the amount of times we lost from winning positions from his sit back on a 1 goal lead mentality. Bilic is a much better manager than he is which is why he doesnt get as much stick. Also as much as I love tomkins fonte is a much better player. Watch Tomkins for palace hes having an awful season one of those who played better cuz he was with us but isnt actually that great. As much as i dont mind the new stadium we would 100% be higher up this season if we still played at the Boleyn due to the small pitch

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7 users have voted.

Spot on fred!

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7 users have voted.

As a lifelong West Ham fan I have not ever believed in the so called West Ham way. Your opinion on Sam Allardyce has been said before by you and others. The thing is that he did exactly what he was employed to do which was get us promoted and establish us in the PL. Bilic was given the job of building on that and hasn't this season.

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5 users have voted.
moore2come's picture

My problem with the criticism is that it almost always begins with, He's got to go. This must be the only sport in the world where you go from hero to zero with one result. Sure Bilic hasn't done great this season, off field, on field, new stadium, below average transfer window(s), but to say the guy needs to be sacked smacks of total stupidity.
We've had one good season under Slav, one poor (so far), how about rather than put the guy's head in a noose, he's given time to turn things around?

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9 users have voted.
Lenuse's picture

But if you read what I've posted then you'll see that's not what I've said nor would I say it. All I said which provoked this now somewhat truncated debate was that the "sack him" brigade have given Bilic a much easier time than they ever gave Allardyce.
I also said that come May, the manager would have some serious explaining to do as to why this season has been so poor and progress -or at least consolidation of last season's position- has not been made.
The debate has gone on from there.......for days lol.
But like you, I detest this sacking culture that exists in the game these days. Not so many years ago most managers would say that they were never any more than 3 or 4 games away from the sack, these days one result can get you the boot.
Look at Mick McCarthy at Wolves, he got the sack not for a bad result, but because they lost to West Brom, and look where Wolves have gone since.
So to repeat, I never have and never will call for a managers head on a plate, but I'll always state my honest opinion where I see fit.

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11 users have voted.
moore 6 legend's picture

Yep! dicksy let's dust ourselves down and go again,that's what being a hammer is all about mate...

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6 users have voted.
Bondsy's picture

I hated the Allardyce years and hated his style of football. Bilic plays the game as it should be played Lenuse and as I said before you can only play the game as well as the players you have in your team. At present we are a team capable of 7th or 8th.
Under Allardyce we would have gone down last year after his abysmal finish to the season before. I really think he has been found out at Palace and is a dinosaur well past his sell by date. Glad we got rid of him when we did.
Bilic is here to stay imo and rightly so, he is doing ok within the limitations imposed upon him by the board.

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7 users have voted.
Lenuse's picture

This is typical of the sort of bile that got thrown at the guy from the day he arrived at the club. Speculation about what would or wouldn't have happened last year is totally irrelevant. The point I'm making is about what's actually happened this term.

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7 users have voted.
harrythehammers's picture

West ham premier league form over last 10 games better than arsenal man city and liverpool. Things aint that bad,

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6 users have voted.
Lenuse's picture

There's an old saying in sport, "form is temporary, class is permanent". I hope our current form continues, but facts are facts, we have been extremely inconsistent, our home form has not been good enough, we have defended appallingly in many games and that serious questions will have to be asked of the manager at the season's end.

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6 users have voted.
Dicks is the man's picture

lol you love your facts but theres one big one that really weakens your argument - our league position. you speak of a disaster but is 9th really that bad?

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harrythehammers's picture

You are correct but so has man city liverpool and arsenal form other than chelsea no other team is being consistent.doesnt mean im happy woth some of our performances which have been dire.nwhether Bilic is the man to move us to the next level i dont know (and ive callled for him to go many times) but i dont think any other manager would come to replace him without a substantial transfer budget in the summer. If bilic is given a large budget what might he achieve?

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6 users have voted.
Lenuse's picture

When did I mention the word "disaster"? My point is that results like yesterday's appear to be papering over cracks. I'm not on here to slate Bilic or call for him to be sacked, I'm merely making the observation that overall, this has not been a good season and if you analyse the home form you can only say that it has not been good.
We haven't progressed and I believe that is something that will have to be addressed by the club at the end of the season and a large part of that process will be scrutiny of the manager's strategy and overall handling of the team.
If the board are as ambitious as they say they are, it behoves them to ask the pertinent questions come May and act upon the answers they get back.
No way is this season a "disaster", but a simple analysis of our home form shows that this has not been a good season at all, and that it will have to improve next season.
9th place is a statistic, but there are lies, damn lies and statistics. Performances are not statistics they are facts, and too often this term we have performed badly and it needs to be sorted out.

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7 users have voted.
Dicks is the man's picture

but mate when sam was playing dire stuff I for one defended it by saying look at the table. I think a lot of us who backed him did. bilic is not immune to criticism. and I believe the board love the money too much to keep a failing manager around. but I just dont see the issues as big as you do. we had some terrible performances but thats a season in the prem for you. I side with bilic too because I believe the squad is what it is. a mid table one. we live and die by league position in this world.

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7 users have voted.

I rarely post but I've been following this thread with interest. The situation is now totally different from when Sam Allardyce was in charge. This is our 5th season back in the PL and Allardyce did his job which was to make us an established PL team. Having got that done, the new managers job was for us to progress on from there and last season we did, but performances have gone backwards this year and that's a genuine fact of life. Pointing at league positions is hiding from the facts I think because if we don't improve next term we will be in serious grief.
I wouldn't put the blame entirely on any one factor, but the club will have to review its overall strategy in the summer and the manager will have to be part of that review

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7 users have voted.
Dicks is the man's picture

but why wouldnt we improve next season? the reason allardyce is being discussed is because someone posted comparisons to him on this thread. question - do you think our squad compared to the rest is say a top 6 one? if so great we're failing. but if no then you cant get round the fact we are mid table. no one can say its hiding from the facts as it is a fact. we were dire v city yet we were good v saints. so for me mid table sounds exactly right

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8 users have voted.

We are a mid-table team at the moment,with the squad weve got,currently lying in 9th which is a hell of a lot better than we were before xmas...
I think its a bit unrealistic to believe we are going to compete with the top 6 unless the board invest heavily,& will they or wont they? is the question...we were all led to believe that there would be a lot of money available since the move,ie cheap rent,selling the boleyn,tv rights,etc....
Is it spin or is it boll*x as we used to call it!!

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8 users have voted.
Lenuse's picture

The opening line of your post is going in the right direction even if the context is a tad awry.
One of the questions that have to be asked of the manager is "what do we do to improve next season?"
The issue in my view, is the fact that we have conceded 4 or more goals at home this term on 4 occasions and have not won a single home game against any team that are currently placed above us in the table, and the board would not be doing their job if they didn't highlight that fact and ask serious questions about the team management strategy.
I started by saying that it amazed me that Bilic was getting such an easy ride from those who poured hatred and bile on Sam Allardyce from the time he arrived to the time he left and still do in some cases. But the discussion has now moved on and now we are looking at the future. Ok, we're currently 9th, but after last term it was not unreasonable to expect a genuine challenge for a European place this year and as that is not now going to happen a serious review will be needed.

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6 users have voted.
Dicks is the man's picture

yeah and for me its the board that will decide if we improve next season. if we buy more zazas and calleris then we wont. if we buy players of snodgrass and fonte then we can expect mid table again. can you honestly tell me that the signings we made should mean we improve on last season? I think its the fan is never content syndrome. we had it with allardyce as you say but now your on the other end it seems with bilic. nice chat cheers mate.

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6 users have voted.

I agree with lenuse in as much as we defend as poorly as I have seen, bilic has a lot to answer for on that issue and he probably does get an easier ride because he is ex West Ham. Some of his decisions border on criminal. I can't back a manager who cant organise the team never learns his lessons and cant see the obvious.

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6 users have voted.
mcbikeman's picture

is this where I get my drum out and start banging it for you no who:-)

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7 users have voted.
darrenharry's picture

I tend to side more with decorum but DITM has valid points too. If Byram is fit and takes the RB spot next week it'll be really interesting to see what happens with Noble as there is no way he is above Obiang nor Kouyate. We'll see Bilic's mettle then...

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6 users have voted.
Dicks is the man's picture

wasnt it the same with allardyce? *whispers the name nolan*

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7 users have voted.
darrenharry's picture

Tune in at 2pm next Saturday for the cliffhanger to be revealed

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6 users have voted.
Dicks is the man's picture

lol. can't wait.

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8 users have voted.

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