Best Holding Midfield Pairing?

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Best holding midfield pair : Obiang/Song...Kouyate/Noble....Obiang/Noble....Song/Kouyate...Obiang/Kouyate....Noble/Song....or would you include another squad member ,like Oxford,who had a great game against Arsenal in that role.

This pairing need to possess a high degree of footballing intelligence and the ability to "read" a game. But all players need that nowadays, don't they?

But simply put,one of the holding players is more offensively oriented, is often unmarked in the midfield,(or I should say makes himself available to be passed to) , additionally takes care of the playmaking and secures the rear space behind number 10(Payet) if his team is in possession of the ball. The second holding player is mostly responsible for defensive tasks,effective at closing down and breaking up attacks,ensuring that he doesn't wonder so he doesn't caught out of position. Ideally, the two players swap their roles in the system of play time and time again, in order to become less predictable.So who do you think best serves these roles in the 4-2-3-1 system that Bilic employs?

I'm opting for obiang and

I'm opting for obiang and song

" A high degree of

" A high degree of footballing intelligence" and " an ability to read the game".

Noble and Noble for me.

Although I personally think

Although I personally think Mark Noble makes too many mistakes and gives away senseless free kicks, as a holding player we probably only have him and Kouyate as our best, Alex Song tends to be a bit of both prefering to go forward more. But out of these three plus Obiang Noble (on his good days) with Kouyate otherwise Song and Kouyate if Noble has to come off.

I would never class kouyate

I would never class kouyate as a holding midfielder. He's all over the field, more of a box to box player. ATM he doesn't have the discipline. I went to the Norwich game a couple of weeks ago and he wasn't even tracking back. Didn't see him close to our back four all game

Got abuse for saying this on

Got abuse for saying this on twiitter. Kouyate is a bit like Diame turns up more for the big games. Not saying Nobles been playing well because he hasnt had a good game since the city game but it doesn't help when most of there teams have 3 central players or wingers who come inside and this leaves Noble constantly our numbered. Kouyates is very rarely in position. Some games this works great espeically against the teams like chelsea where you need to press them a bully them. But when teams like watford come at us with a game plan like they did kouyate gets found out. His technical ability isn't that great his passing is awful. Next game I think Song/Obiang and Valencia up top.

Must say I totally agree in

Must say I totally agree in everything you've said altho sakho would be my first choice up top. If we are talking holding players only noble, obiang and song hold their position enough to be classed as holding midfielders. I'm not convinced Slav is using kouyate as a holding midfielder as he isn't playing that way. Fred I wouldn't worry about abuse from Twitter. Most probably never kicked a ball. On the other foot I've heard more and more people question kouyate always being out of position and never tracking back, and poor passing on the West Ham forums. I like kouyate but I'm not convinced he is suited to the formation unless it centre half. As for Valencia I'd definately play him up top if sakho isn't fit, like I've said before he looks more suited to our style than Carroll. If we play Carroll we have to play differently, therefore he can only be plan b. Valencia is the closest like for like with sakho.

Ye meant valencia up top if

Ye meant valencia up top if sakho wasnt fit

Yes Fred I gathered that

Yes Fred I gathered that Just a bit tongue in cheek ha ha

You should have stopped after

You should have stopped after 14 words mate!!!

This was in reply to Bondsy.....and bizarrely his post now seems to have disappeared!!

Song is a master at breaking

Song is a master at breaking up opposition attacks, maneuvering himself out of tight situations and playing the ball simply to a teammate,he is also adept at those creative long ball passes,and pushing forward as a creative playmaker .Thats why he has got to be one of the holding players,he serves both roles well,first half of last season proves my point...we know what he can bring to the team.Noble is of the same mold, but lacks the quality of Song,but they are the two for me that are best suited for the holding midfielder and the two roles they need to play.The problem has been in the past getting the defensive and attacking roles in sync.,so often ,especially last season teams have cut though us , because the holding midfielders have gone walkabouts and caught out of position.If I had the choice I would not alternate their roles,let the defensive holding player sit throughout the match and let the more attack minded holding midfielder do his business,so each player knows exactly what they have to do.Claude Makalele ,Chelsea's standout holding midfielder played in the space between the centre-backs and the midfield and swept up any balls that came through the midfield. His presence meant that the centerbacks didnt have to follow strikers into midfield and the more advanced midfielders didnt have to run box to box losing the shape of the team. Makelele was an expert at protecting 'The Hole' and the British media seemed to have never seen such a player so they named the role after him. When in possession he would collect the ball from the centerbacks and play short simple passes to whoever was in space. He was a true holding midfielder in that he rarely looked to join the attack and accepted that his job was more destructive than creative.

The space between I front of

The space between I front of the centre backs ( between the back four and attacking midfield) is where a holding midfielder plays. Both our holding players should be in exactly that space. If song is there he can also gain space to slide balls into Payet and sakho from deep. He doesn't need to be wandering off upfield. Like you said Essex, last season they were caught out due to going walkabout and that's why I'd team song with obiang the most defencive midfielder we have as noble is struggling for consistency. There is absolutely no reason the 2 holding midfielders should be making forward runs. There job is to protect the back four. If they do that correctly, itl will allow both full backs to get forward safely and we still have attacking threat with Payet, sakho, Lanzini and Moses. Plus like I say songs passing.

I haven't really seen enough

I haven't really seen enough of Obiang to make a fair judgement ,I thought him and Kouyate were box to box players , attacking and defending according to the flow of the game,not ideally suited to the holding role,although they can do a job there. Obiang's preferred position,I thought he was a centre midfielder ,like Kouyate ,not really suited to the current set up(4-2-3-1,but I like Obiang from what little I have seen of him,and Kouyate another high energy player that I rate.I just feel Bilic would have been better off bringing in a proper ,out and out holding midfielder,who knows the position inside out,if he wanted to play the current set up.Just think there is a little bit of an imbalance for this formation.I like to see the right player for the job,we had enough of round pegs in square holes with Allardyce.

Saw obiang against Norwich

Saw obiang against Norwich looked like a defensive midfielder to me and never got forward. I agree Essex there is an imbalance in midfield and I agree try not to put square pegs in round holes. Personally I think 2 holding midfielders should be our plan A, diamond with 2 up top should be plan be and Carroll up top on his own as plan C. Kouyate is ok for plan b and c but looks not right for plan a.